There's been a small storm of protest over CNN chief news executive Eason Jordan accusing the US military not only of killing 12 journalists, but doing it deliberately. That's the kind of statement that really requires a bit of preparation, so it's quite annoying that he seems to have bungled the job of defending something I suspect is true. Let's go over the list of reporters attacked by the US, and see how many could fit that description.
2003.03.23: Terry Lloyd, Hussein Othman, and Fred Nerac killed, taking at first US tank fire (despite being in a clearly marked jeep) that was ostensibly aimed at Iraqi soldiers. According to an Iraqi eyewitness, Terry Lloyd actually survived that first attack with only a wound to the shoulder, but took an additional bullet to the head when a US helicopter fired upon the civilian van taking him to the hospital. The bodies of Hussein Othman and Fred Nerac were never found, but they are presumed dead. This makes three possibly killed deliberately.
2003.03.28: Three foreign journalists are arrested, detained, and beaten up, leaving one with broken ribs. No fatalities, so still only three killed, but not exactly evidence of US care for uncontrolled journalists.
2003.03.30: Gaby Rado falls from the roof of his hotel under unknown circumstances. There's a lot of speculation about whether this was a suicide, or whether someone pushed him, and it's noted that he's a human rights reporter, the kind the US government generally wants out of the way if not well controlled. There's absolutely no evidence one way or the other, though, so you can't count this one unless you're the type to seek tinfoil hats. The count remains at three.
2003.04.06: Kamaran Muhamed killed by shrapnel from a bomb dropped on a convoy of Kurdish soldiers. This one can be chalked up to collateral damage, and is rather unlikely to be intentional. The count remains at three.
2003.04.08: Taras Protsyuk and José Couso killed when a US tank fires at their hotel. The subsequent investigation of Reporters Without Borders concluded that the soldiers on the ground had not been informed that the hotel was the main residence for non-embedded journalists, although their superiors were frequently informed of this, all the way down to GPS locations, for weeks prior to the incident. RWB was "extremely disappointed" when the military investigation closed declaring that "no fault or negligence" could be attributed to the US army for the incident. (As a side note, My Sandmen is reporting that RWB is claiming only negligence, not intent, which I think is a little inaccurate — RWB cleared the soldiers on the ground of intent, but implied that a decision was made higher up to deliberately not inform the troops, so as to encourage an "accident" with the non-embedded troops that might report something contrary to the party line. Since the military's investigation ended with a conclusion so much at odds with the results of investigations from outside the military, and early press releases of what happened differed so much from immediate reports from the ground, it's pretty safe to assume that a solid cover-up was made, and there's never going to be any more information found.) Current total: five.
2003.04.08: Tariq Ayoub killed when a US missile hits the Al-Jazeera headquarters. Al-Jazeera claims it is deliberate, and it is noted that their Afghanistan office was one of the first buildings bombed back in Kabul, Afghanistan as well. The US, of course, claims otherwise. While this is plausible, considering how many of their missiles went randomly astray, it's certainly suspicious. This brings the total to six.
2003.08.17: Mazen Dana killed by soldiers in two tanks outside Abu Ghraib, now famous for entirely different reasons. The soldiers claimed they thought he was pointing a rocket-propelled grenade at them; other journalists at the scene stated that they had been seen filming for half an hour before he was shot. Pictures from Reuters showing what he looked like with a camera on his shoulder can be found here and here. Update: Here's a picture of a shoulder-mounted rocket launcher for comparison. Thanks to chthus for the link. The total is now seven.
2004.01.02: Four journalists, three from Reuters and one from NBC, were fired upon, imprisoned, and brutalised, resulting in one requiring subsequent hospitalization for a leg injury. They were wearing bulletproof jackets clearly marked "Press". One was forced to strip naked and ordered to put his shoe on his mouth, while soldiers told the journalists, "If you don't shut up, we'll fuck you." Others had bags placed over their heads while being told that they were going to Guantanamo, while soldiers whispered, "Let's have sex." The US government claimed that they were enemy personnel pretending to be media that had fired on US soldiers, but admitted that no weapons were found. All four survived, so the total remains at seven, but this doesn't paint a very pretty picture about US treatment of media outside of their direct control (i.e. non-embedded), particularly taking the events of 2003.03.28 into account.
2004.03.18: Ali Abdel Aziz and Ali al-Khatib killed by US soldiers after getting into their vehicle (marked clearly "TV"), while trying to get out of the area where a Volvo had tried to run a checkpoint, sparking protests by their news agency Al-Iraqyia and others. They had been given permission to film by the US Army. This brings the total to nine.
2004.04.19: Assad Kadhim and Hussein Saleh killed by US fire on the road to Samarra. The US Army issued a statement accepting responsibility for the death of the two journalists in what it called "accidental" fire, claiming that they were hit by "four to six bullets" that were aimed at the car ahead of them that jumped a roadblock (even accounting for panic, that's kind of lousy aim, there, to miss by an entire vehicle and the distance between them). Assad Kadhim and Hussein Saleh were Al-Iraqyia journalists, like the ones killed a month prior. This brings the total to eleven.
2004.09.23: Mazen Al-Tomaizi killed by a missile fired from an Apache helicopter while filming people gathered around a US tank that had been set ablaze in a car bomb attack. Reuters footage showed the crowd to be made up of unarmed boys and men, two of whom were standing on top of the Bradley. This attack seemed to be aimed at the unarmed civilians, and not the reporter specifically, however, so we'll leave the count at eleven.
2004.11.01: Dhia Najim killed by sniper fire in Ramadi. The US claimed at first that he was killed in a small arms firefight, but his video footage showed no fighting at the time he was killed. The US admitted that Marine snipers were present.
This brings the total to twelve, so if someone handed Eason Jordan the same information I've just provided here, it's entirely possible that he said what he did in good faith. Blogs keep decrying him as a liar, and asking for names — here they are. It is admittedly a little unfair to ask the US military to prove a negative, that these deaths were not intentional... but then, we have most likely killed over a hundred thousand civilians in Iraq, and taken horrendous casualties among our own soldiers, because Saddam Hussein was unable to prove a negative: that he had no weapons of mass destruction.
Other blogs discussing this issue:
- Annika's Journal
- Captain's Quarters
- Dangerous Dan
- The Foreign News Observer
- The House of Wheels
- Isaac Schrödinger
- Myopic Zeal
- My Sandmen
- The National Political Observer
- Opaque Lucidity
- PDQ's Views
- Power Line
- Ramblings' Journal
- RightPundit
- The Smoking Room
- Winds of Change
- World Economic Forum
Other references:
- Rehumanize: Journalists killed in Iraq
- Reporters Without Borders: Journalists killed in Iraq
- Kirkby Times: In memory of journalists killed in Iraq
- International News Safety Institute: Journalists killed
Closing comments:
Boy, that took a lot of time and effort, but to all the bloggers and commenters out there that never bothered to look this up, all out of easily found information, you have no room to talk about sloppy journalism or make accusations against Eason Jordan. It's one thing to be wrong; it's another entirely to not even try, and then decry others for their errors, and make accusations about "treason" and "slander". I find it telling that out of all the blogs I saw talking about this, of all the comments, only one blogger and one commenter even bothered to look up the deaths in even a casual fashion, so I'll end this by giving my compliments to Mr. Atos, of My Sandmen, and Ken Hechtman, on the World Economic Forum.

Eason Jordan Admitted He Had No Proof
In the same forum where Eason Jordan made his now infamous comments, he also admitted that he had no proof for his assertions. One assumes that Eason Jordan knew he was going beyond the standards of his profession. The question is then: why, if not to smear the US troops?
Stating that one has to look up and refer to at least some of the reporters' deaths in Iraq is the rhetorical equivalent of "put it in writing": it's just a delaying tactic. One notes that while you compiled an excellent compendium, it brings you no closer to proving the wild accusations of Eason Jordan, and you admit that too. Indeed, it is a much more likely explanation that the reporters you catalog above got killed simply because they worked in a war zone, rather than because of some grand conspiracy involving dozens of soldiers and commanders at least. If the US troops wanted reporters out of the war zone, they would tell them to leave. Apply Occam's Razor, please.
-pdq (I'll have to figure out how to log in someday...)
No grand conspiracy needed
A policy, or even a culture, for contempt for the lives of independent reporters would more than suffice. Evidence for such a culture exists in the form of what was done to the above mentioned reporters that did survive. If you're taught that there will be no repercussions if you swing that rifle off to the left and pick off any witnessing reporters after you blow away a vehicle (which is demonstrably true, since there *were* no repercussions to these incidents, and news gets around about such things), and you get fed rhetoric about how any journalists reporting a US-hostile view were effectively providing comfort to the enemy (which is admittedly speculation on what might have been said in a barracks, but has certainly been expressed by a number of bloggers, so I think it's not an unfair assertion), I can imagine it would be really tempting to take out a few nonmilitary targets to ease your frustration with life in Iraq, particularly since soldiers didn't have the option of asking reporters to leave the war zone; the political outcry would have been absolutely immense, and it would have spawned spectacularly ugly accusations on the part of the international community about what was going on in there that the US was trying to hide. Occam's Razor teaches that the fewer variables, the more likely the solution, but we're dealing with the same variables of human nature here on each side.
But let's move on to the topic of standards of journalism and motive. If you're a journalist, particularly one working for a US news source, you're likely to be a bit ticked if you keep getting reports of journalists being killed by US troops in very questionable circumstances, or beaten and sexually assaulted in completely unjustifiable circumstances. That's motive enough for raising the topic. He did screw up twice, in that he forgot to take the standard journalistic technique of hiding the accusation behind distancing phrases, such as "there is evidence of", or "a number of non-embedded journalists in the field believe", and he didn't have his ducks lined up before he started shooting.
I am seriously pissed that he touched off this firestorm without at least doing as much work as I did, because when you do something like this wrong, it makes people that much less inclined to listen if someone does it right later. That doesn't mean, however, that it was an intentional smear campaign based on something he didn't believe (never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence, and so on), nor does his lack of ability to present evidence mean that it doesn't exist. I've shown above that it does exist, enough to cast a dark shadow if not anywhere near enough to warrant a conviction. He isn't smearing the US troops; the people (most particularly the officers who set policy, but also the grunts who carried it out) involved in torturing prisoners, in being reckless with fire, in bombing Red Cross facilities and news centers, in shooting civilians, those people inside the US military have smeared the US troops, most of whom are fine individuals stuck in a really ugly situation and doing the best they can.
But I think most of the people ranting about his comments right now wouldn't have been any happier if he had not said "they deliberately targeted twelve journalists", and said instead "there is evidence that they deliberately targeted as many as twelve journalists", and then named the names above when asked, followed by a pointer to the ACLU reports on how investigations into other military misdoings were cut short again and again. It would have been entirely truthful, journalistically correct, and still would have brought shame upon the military — and would still have pissed of about as many people for that reason. The implications would have hung in the air, even buffered by the qualifiers.
Might as well cut him some slack for speaking bluntly, then, if it's going to go the same way.
I have a lot of sympathy for wanting to clobber him for being unprepared, or incompetent, or heck, even for being wrong, since even I don't believe that all twelve examples above were due to soldier hostility (my guess is about half that number, not including the ones picked up and beaten). I have no respect whatsoever for the flying accusations of dishonesty, treachery, or treason, however — especially by people who assumed that the US military must be lily white by sheer virtue of the fact that they're Americans, without bothering to look up any facts.
But it's a War Zone
Now that we're lowering the bar from intentional targeting of reporters to creating a hostile working environment for reporters, I think it is appropriate to point again out that these reporters are working in a war zone. A war zone is inherently dangerous, and it is in fact the US troops' job to make it dangerous whether there are reporters there or not. If it were a reporter's job to report from the inside of a burning building, would you curse the firefighters for not protecting him when the building collapses? It is part of the risk they took when they signed up for the job, and unless there is some agreement and safety rules to be followed on both sides, the US army can't be responsible. But the original point being made by Eason Jordan, and the point which you are regrettably trying to make as well in the last paragraph (which is confusing because you started out on the 'culture of contempt' path), is that at least some of the examples above are due to soldier hostility. And if I may interpret that, you mean direct, premeditated, soldier "I'm gonna kill that mofo reporter" hostility.
Firstly, you misunderstand Occam's Razor. When comparing two explanations of some phenomena, the one that can explain all of the observables while invoking the fewest special mechanisms is the favored one. And you're guily of invoking several special mechanisms in the very same paragraph above when you link your imagination to soldiers blowing off steam by shooting reporters especially because they couldn't order reporters to leave in turn because they didn't want to risk ugly accusations of a coverup. That's not an argument, that's pure speculation. You were in trouble as soon as you typed the words, "I can imagine..." And it takes many more steps to explain the deaths at issue than by applying Occam's Razor and saying that the reporters were killed by accident because they were in a war zone.
Secondly, the point about Eason Jordan is that he is not some hack who accidentally rose through the ranks of CNN on the strength of his good looks. He is a professional journalist who should know better than to make serious accusations without having serious evidence to back it up. This is not incompetance. How can the man be that incompetant and yet rise through the ranks of CNN? And yet I find it simply amazing that here is the same man who only a few years ago was actively involved in hushing up the crimes of Saddam Hussein against reporters. If the evidence threshold of Eason Jordan is so low (because of incompetance?) to spout unsubstantiated accusations about US troops targeting reporters, then certainly he would have said something about Saddam where the evidence was much stronger. But he didn't.
Think through the implications. If he didn't speak up in the case of Saddam Hussein because he was worried about the safety of other reporters or to preserve access to the regime, isn't he worried about putting CNN reporters at increased risk of being shot at by US troops by making the accusations at Davos, or of losing access to the US troop commanders or even the White House itself? That's why he doesn't believe, why he cannot believe, that US troops are actually targeting reporters. And this is not speculation, this is based on statements by Eason Jordan himself, and are all a matter of the public record. So what is that if not dishonest and treacherous? Incompetance falls short of the mark because then it is unexplained how he rose to his esteemed position at CNN.
Thirdly, I do not assume anywhere that the US militariy is 'lily white' by sheer virtue of anything, and I challenge you to find evidence of that in my reasoning.
Finally, the onus is not on me or any other "right wing blogger" to look up any facts to support or even to refute Eason Jordan's claims. Rather the burden of proof falls on Eason Jordan and his defenders. I have not seen any such proof. While you have compiled a very nice summary of various cases, I hope it is becoming apparent to you that the better strategy would have been to focus on the strongest one, and prove it thoroughly. A preponderance of weak cases and coincidences does not a proof make.
Burden of proof
The accusation is still intentional targeting of reporters. The bar has been lowered only from the proof required at a trial to the evidence required at a grand jury hearing, and I think I've provided that. It's set there because this isn't about trying to get soldiers convicted of war crimes; it's about whether Eason Jordan is guilty of "treason" or starting a smear campaign. For that, the burden of proof lies upon his accusers, and the point of this entry was to show two things: that sufficient evidence exists for him to believe what he said, and to point out that of all the blogs making accusations, practically none actually bothered to do any research at all. This is particularly ironic in light of the fact the accusations are in published form, and Eason Jordan's indiscretion was in the form of casual, unvetted talk in a discussion forum.
Even journalists get the right to make statements based on personal belief when they're not in the process of publishing something. It's a different sort of incompetence here, to make inflammatory statements without cover; it is a political rather than a journalistic error, and you can obviously rise to the top of CNN without being an excellent politician. (I dislike CNN for other reasons, but that actually says something good about them.)
I've demonstrated that the accusations aren't unsubstantiated, you can't extrapolate from one situation to the other, because the circumstances aren't identical, and it hasn't been shown that he didn't, only that he directed CNN not to cover it (and I note that CNN hasn't much covered this, either). What he said to other people is also not recorded, so you simply don't know whether he said something or not. It's quite possible that he did, and nobody would remember because it wouldn't be much surprise to anyone. Note also that Saddam Hussein was considered a friend of the US for quite some time (I have a picture of Rumsfeld smiling and shaking hands with him lying around somewhere), and a lot of people were hushing up things that he was doing for one reason or another.
I'm not saying that his treatment of Saddam was a good thing, but it doesn't make him any worse than most executives, unfortunately.
Because the White House isn't the Baath party? Because Saddam could benefit from shooting a few reporters to cow the rest and simply wait out the objections, and the US military is no longer in as good a position to suppress independent reporters as it was previously? Because it wasn't something he was publishing, but just something he said, fueled by his personal frustration at the moment? Because you're comparing two completely different situations, and trying to extrapolate motives from one to another?
An interesting challenge, considering that you're writing anonymously, and aren't claiming to speak for all of the other sources that seem to be doing just that. However, even you seem to be pushing the assumption that the military hasn't targeted reporters deliberately, when at least the ones that were picked up and beaten show that they have. The only disputed issue is whether or not the ones that actually died where deliberately targeted, and then you attempt to use Occam's Razor to say that the only correct conclusion is that they are innocent, when you are guilty of just as many suppositions about their overcoming their documented behavior to do so.
No, the burden of proof always falls on the accuser. If you make an accusation of "treason" or a deliberate "smear campaign", you have to do the leg work and come up with evidence, just as you claim that Eason Jordan has to come up with evidence of his own accusations — especially if you're publishing, when he wasn't. (I'll grant an exception for those that aren't doing their blogging full-time, who's blogs may have only the weight of a comment in passing, but there are plenty that fit the bill.)
Thank you for compiling the l
Thank you for compiling the list and my sympathy goes out to them, and all others killed in the line of fire.
If the burden of proof always falls on the accuser, it is interesting to not that Mr. Jordan has not come out to back up his original assertion.
And while you list may or may not have evidence to support a grand jury, it certainly does not appear that it would have enough to support a conviction. Seven of the cases you cited above could be chalked up to accidental fire in a war zone.
The Pentagon issued a stateme
The Pentagon issued a statement, sometime around the start of hostilities, something to the effect that they could not guarantee the safety of any people sent into the war zone, embedded or not.
I have tried for the last hour or so to find the exact statement issued, but have not. It most likely makes no difference.
I can only tell you that from the standpoint of a Soldier who has been in a combat zone, where people are trying to kill him, it is most times, shoot first and ask questions later. No matter how well trained he is or even if he knows its possible innocent people might be killed or wounded, survival instinct and protecting your soldiers, rules the day.
Also, the more powerful your weapons, the more damage is done in a very short time. The old reliable, 50 cal can tear a car up in a heartbeat, destroy a frame house in a few minutes. It can also do equal damage to anything behind or around the target.
Imagine giving the troops weapons that make the 50 look like a large rifle. You will get massive damage very very quickly. Anyone in the general vicinity is going to be in dire danger of losing his life or being wounded. Couple that with troops that are excited, driven by fear, rage or just saturated with adrenaline. This of course applies to both sides of the warring parties. Even more so if the person is not very well trained.
In those circumstances and conditions, nobody in the zone is remotely safe and it is impossible to "protect them".
Papa Ray
West Texas
USA
Logging in
One other thing, since you mentioned it: user logins (and new user registration) were on the lower left, under the comments.
This wasn't really that visible, so I've moved it to the upper right.
The question remains. Why, i
The question remains. Why, if true, has CNN not reported this?
annika
A few possibilities
My guesses?
1) It doesn't sell well. Fox News made a killing by blowing the patriot horn, even when some of the news they reported turned out to be complete works of fiction. Nobody wants to hear that our friends and loved ones overseas, for whom we're absolutely terrified, are involved in unpleasantness, or are in greater danger than is being announced, or are more poorly supplied than is believed.
Heck, even I don't want to hear it. The son of a friend of mine is over there, two of my gaming buddies just made it back, and something knots up inside me every time I hear about another incident. It's enough to make me stop reading the news for a while... which could be ugly for a news channel if I had an influence on the Nielsen ratings.
2) They didn't want to screw up their contacts during the war. Without having your journalists embedded, you have much less coverage to show on TV, and much greater risk to get it (especially if you think you're likely to get shot at by the US as well as the Iraqis). There can be other political repercussions as well, including losing access to the White House for other coverage, or being saddled with other restrictions. See So Now We Have Minders over on Pacific Views for another interesting bit on how the White House is managing the press.
3) By now, a lot of this is old news. By the time there was enough of a trail to convert individual points into a trend, half of the events are a year old, and nobody wants to hear about it. This is sort of an extension of #1, and in a general sense, is one of the things that irritates me about mainstream news in general: the push to always have the latest story means that very little looking back is done to spot trends in motion.
It's not just CNN. There's a lot of things that don't get reported about the war in the US mainstream news, that show up immediately overseas. Even Abu Ghraib got delayed here, and showed up only after the photos were all over the rest of the world already.
Well, if the US military real
Well, if the US military really was targetting journalists, I would think the list of deaths would be a whole lot longer than the twelve you cite. It's also likely that there would be many more deaths caused by snipers or small arms, rather than so many missiles and bombs.
I'm also puzzled by your 2003.04.08 entry -- was there really only one journalist at al-Jazeera 'headquarters'? That seems to be very light staffing.
Cheers...
Targetting
The argument of "they could have done worse, if they wished to be extremely blatant, therefore they could not have done anything less than their worst" is a bit specious, at best. A "shoot them if you can get away with it" mentality doesn't mean that they'll shoot every journalist they can on sight.
As for the 2003.04.08, there was only one fatality when the missiles hit the building, but there were also injuries, not listed.
But i thought one of the poin
But i thought one of the points of your article was that they were being blatant about it. In most of the incidents you listed, you make the point that there were other observers (2003.03.23, 2004.04.19, 2004.09.23, and others) or that the people killed were in vehicles clearly marked 'TV' (2003.03.23, 2004.03.18, and probably others).
And regarding the 2003.04.08 entry -- how do you decide whether or not to list injuries, then? A couple of the entries in your list refer only to injuries, but in the 2003.04.08 incident you did not list any injuries at all. Not a big thing, perhaps, but it seems confusing to me, and possibly others.
Regards.
Blatancy, injuries
As far as it concerns blatancy, there are degrees of this. Where you want to draw your lines is up to you, of course; I've linked to the major news coverage for each event and the other sources I used, so you can look for yourself.
The two events where only injuries are noted are included because there is pretty much no doubt whatsoever that reporters were deliberately targeted and abused (one could even say tortured) in those cases, and thus they have direct bearing on the allegations. For the events with fatalities, I listed only the reporters killed; pulling in a list of all additional injured or killed civilians would have required a lot more work and bloated the list rather dramatically.
Let's investigate all claims
So let's get this straight. It's perfectly fine for you to take all of these deaths and say that it's "possible" that they were targeted, no proof of course - but possible.
Talk about sloppy journalism. Go get proof that these reporters were targeted. In the interim, when a senior member of one of the world's leading news organizations is willing to spread his suspicisions to international audiences but unwilling to report it as news - he is going to have a backlash in the blogosphere, and rightly so.
Blogs, reporting
And when the bloggers make outlandish claims about his motives and the complete impossibility of his claims, they'll also get backlash — and rightly so, especially when they never bothered to look for themselves.
Considering that it's not physically possible to fully investigate any military misconduct, since the military doesn't allow outside investigation, and the ACLU documents and Abu Ghraib trials have confirmed that investigations are stopped internally before they can come close to a responsible party, demanding absolute proof in advance of being able to voice suspicions, even when evidence exists, amounts to a demand that the military be considered completely unaccountable — and an undue restraint on free speech.
I'm really, really annoyed that he didn't have the information I gathered above readily available when he made his statements, as I've noted in other comments. There's a lot of blame to be thrown at him for laziness, sloppiness, and political naïvety. You're not a traitor for voicing suspicions where evidence exists, however, nor does doing so amount to a deliberate smear campaign.
If the right-wing blogs had contented themselves with blasting him for his sloppiness, without turning around and starting a smear campaign of their own, I likely would never have bothered collecting the above — and I might even have posted in agreement. His error isn't a license to be even worse, however.
I'm not going to jump into th
I'm not going to jump into the detail of every case, but only enough to demonstrate your methods.
Your first three:
Directly from ITN, published in the Guardian:
http://www.newssafety.com/stories/guardian/osman.htm
"ITN believes DNA tests indicate that the Lebanese translator, Hussein Osman, was killed when a four-man team was caught in crossfire between Iraqi and US troops near Basra on the first day of the war last March.
...
ITN said the DNA evidence appeared to corroborate the testimony of an Iraqi witness who claimed Osman and Nerac were taken from their ITN car and placed in an Iraqi military vehicle."
While talking about 'US Tank fire' you might have mentioned that the journalists were between US and Iraqi tanks while they were slugging it out. You also might have mentioned that it was never determined which side delivered lethal fire...both sides hit their vehicles. There was a full investigation, down to DNA evidence of who was, and wasn't, where. It is a big jump from being caught in the crossfire to 'possibly killed deliberately' It is also worth noting that there is evidence that at least one of the deceased was in an Iraqi military vehicle. You can hardly call the US military shooting an Iraqi military vehicle 'targetting journalists'
Assad Kadhim and Hussein Saleh: I won't provide a link because your own from RSF makes clear what happened in the quote from one of the deceased's brothers. They were parked at a checkpoint waiting to be searched when a car (suicide bomber?) tried to ram its way through. They "ran" to their car and started driving. They set themselves up with very suspicious and dangerous actions at a highly inopportune moment.
You (and many others) make a big deal out of 'clearly marked TV' on cars. I can paint TV on my car. I can paint TV on your car. I can paint TV on your car AND put a bomb in it too. Having TV painted on your car may get you a second thought, but it is not going to protect anyone from the consequences of doing stupid things...like driving while a someone is trying to ram through a checkpoint. The bad guys can paint 'TV' in 'big letters' just as easily as anyone else.
The most famous case, that of Taras Protsyuk and José Couso on the hotel balcony, you left out quite a few important details of the story. They were without a doubt killed by fire from an American tank. You jump from that to the unit involved not being 'informed' about the number of journalists in the hotel to a conspiracy theory about deliberate targetting of journalists.
Here is a fairly detailed and fair link
http://ics.leeds.ac.uk/papers/vp01.cfm?outfit=pmt&requesttimeout=500&folder=34&paper=250
It is very clear that the unit was trying to find an artillery spotter calling in fire on them. It is also clear that they did not know which building the journalists were in. It is also clear that the journalists on a balcony with binoculars look a whole lot like the Iraqi artillery spotter that was trying to kill them.
The US military took very good care of the journalists that were embedded with them. They were a little busy defeating the Iraqi military to compromise their operations in order to keep track of anyone in Iraq with a notepad. And it is absurd to think that the military was targetting journalists...there were supposedly 100 journalists in that hotel, and the Army only managed to kill 2 on a balcony?
Thanks for your comments
I wish the other responses were as thoughtful.
A few notes: where do you find reference to the ITN vehicles being between tanks? It's a bit late at night for me to go back through the sources, but I had been given the impression that they were near, but not directly between the US tanks and Iraqi soldiers (I didn't see any reference to Iraqi tanks on this even, either, nor did I see reference to the ITV vehicle taking hits from both sides). Also, note that the "military vehicle" line refers to someone having taken the journalists out of their car after it was hit in the first place, and then subsequently placed in the vehicle. Certainly, you can't blame the military for shooting at an Iraqi military vehicle subsequently (even if it was just evacuating wounded), but the concern is for shooting at marked ITV vehicle in the first place. Also, Terry Lloyd was in a civilian van taking him to the hospital when that, too, was fired upon by a US helicopter. If, in fact, the ITV vehicle was taking tank fire from both sides, I'm surprised anything was found at all, much less several people actually getting into rescue vehicles. If you find the reference to the tanks, I'll mark it.
Also, trying to get away from an area where bullets are flying isn't "suspicious", it's expected. You've also fudged the timing here; a vehicle ran the barricade, and was shot at, then the reporters ran back to their clearly marked vehicle, got into it, and were then shot down. Note that these are people who had gone so far as to contact the US military about their presence and gotten permission before filming. It's a bit of a jump to say that the military would then turn around and say, "Those journalists are suspicious for avoiding gunfire! Shoot them!"
As for the hotel balcony, you haven't added anything not already noted by my given links; the question is why the troops were never notified about where the independent journalists were staying, and whether that decision was deliberate.
Keep in mind that the US military took very good care of the journalists that were embedded with them because they were carefully set up to only report positive things, with all reports passing through the military for alteration before being printed. They weren't reporters anymore; they were US propaganda tools. Some of the reporters involved came out afterwards and apologized for taking part in the sham after they realized exactly what it was (this should be googleable, but it's too late for me to hunt for them tonight). The journalists killed by the US weren't in the category of "anyone with a notepad"; they were trained journalists with their professional equipment representing the only free press in the region.
Here is an excerpt from anoth
Here is an excerpt from another link about the Lloyd incident
http://www.arabmediawatch.com/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=1194
"The Journal article cited a report from a British security firm commissioned by ITN to investigate the incident saying that Lloyd's car was hit by both coalition and Iraqi fire; the latter most likely came from behind the car, possibly after the vehicle had crashed.
The report concluded that "[t]he Iraqis no doubt mounted an attack using the ITN crew as cover, or perhaps stumbled into the U.S. forces whilst attempting to detain the ITN crew." The report also speculated that Nerac and Othman, who were last seen by Demoustier in another car being stopped by Iraqi forces—might have been pulled out of their car before it came under fire from coalition forces, and then Iraqi forces used the SUV to attack the coalition forces.
...
In September, London's The Daily Mirror newspaper reported the testimony of an Iraqi man named Hamid Aglan who had allegedly tried to rescue the wounded Lloyd in a civilian minibus.
...
An ITN spokesperson told CPJ that a number of elements of Aglan's story are not consistent with ITN's own investigation. "
End of excerpt.
Algan the discredited is the source of the conspiracy theory versions of the story.
This doesn't have any specific mention of what Iraqi forces were involved , but it happened in the sector of the Iraqi 6th Armored (tank) Division of the Iraqi third corps. Note:This link was written before DNA evidence support for Othman being killed while inside an Iraqi vehicle. The fact that at least one of the deceased was in Iraqi military custody makes clear that there were Iraqi forces operating in the immediate vicinity at the same time. Also worth noting was that NO DNA evidence was found for Nerac, and given the US military investigation, the British military investigation, the British police investigation and ITN's private civilian investigation, and is highly likely that if it were there it would have been found. They DNA'd everything they found...and didn't find Nerac. That at least raises the strong possibility that he was 'disappeared' while in Iraqi custody.
This is from an embed with the unit involved:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-04-07-baghdad-intoiraq_x.htm
Three journalists and a translator employed by Britain's Independent Television News, driving two rented Mitsubishi Pajeros with the taped letters "TV" prominently affixed to the vehicles' roofs and sides, blundered into the Iraqi charge.
The Marines destroyed one of the journalist's vehicles and fired on another. The British journalist Terry Lloyd was shot dead although it's unclear whether he was killed by Marines or Iraqi fighters. The French cameraman, Fred Nerac, and the Lebanese driver and translator, Hussein Osman, are still missing. The first Marine investigators to the scene were themselves injured as fighting continued. Today, the U.S. and British military investigations remain incomplete. "We are waiting for the results," ITN spokesman Saskia Wirth says. "It is still too early to draw any conclusions."
Nobody questions the American tankers' right, even duty, to fire on the frightened journalists as they raced toward what they believed to be friendly forces. But the tank battalion's official history describes the blunder callously, stating, "It didn't even occur to any of us that journalists would try to participate in an Iraqi suicide charge."
Twice, I asked Capt. Poland what happened at the bridge. He told the story with gusto, omitting the fact at least one journalist was dead. Col. Chartier reported the accident to Gen. James Mattis, who promised to investigate. But he and Poland kept me in the dark. That night, Chartier was telling Poland the plan when Poland hushed him, aware I was standing almost invisibly in a deep shadow near them. I heard nothing.
"We did not kill any journalists but at that time we thought maybe we had," Chartier told me recently. "I just didn't need that going out right at that moment."
End of excerpt.
Other parts of the article make it clear that the unit was involved with Iraqi tank forces.
With regard to the roadblock incident, I dispute your disputation of the timeline. How long do you think between happened between the soldiers destroying the vehicle ramming through the checkpoint and the reporters vehicle being hit? According to the reports, it happened at essentially the same moment...even to the point that the military thinking it was bullets aimed at one vehicle hitting another. It wasn't like 5 minutes later that the journalists were fired on.
You're right that fleeing from fighting is 'expected' but you are wrong that it is not 'suspicious' Suspicious is judged from the perspective of those behind the trigger. And a second vehicle parked in line at a checkpoint starting to drive at essentially the same moment as another vehicle tries to ram through is absolutely suspicious. And if you think it isn't, it was clear that the line was over an hour long, which means there were a lot of vehicles parked waiting to be searched. How come only the journalists were hit? If that was an 'expected' reaction and the 'expected' reaction got people killed, how come that entire checkpoint was not a massacre of innocents? The TV journalists made themselves stand out at exactly the wrong time in exactly the wrong way. In fact, the "TV" emblazened on their car could easily have worked to their disadvantage at that point because that is exactly the behavior expected from terrorists hiding behind TV painted on their car.
As for the hotel balcony, I absolutely added something you didn't include. The context. Your writeup tries to make it seem like there was some conspiracy to kill journalists by denying information about where journalists are. It is VERY clear that the journalists were mistaken for Iraqi artillery spotters. Do you dispute this?
Because if you do accept that, it totally destroys its utility in your original point...that the US military targets journalists. And that is why you glossed over relevant facts...to try to turn something that is not supportive of your arguement into something that is.
Furthermore, you and others are operating under the false assumption that the military has some sort of responsibility for non-embedded journalists. They are no different that any other non combatant. The military is not responsible for keeping track of where they are and taking special steps to avoid them. The military can't deliberately target the media, as you and Eason are trying to argue they do, but beyond that there is nothing. The arguement that some higher HQ knew there were journalists there but didn't tell them is irrelevant. They were busying trying to fight a war. Their information and communication channels were (or should be) dedicated to where friendly and Iraqi forces are. Their job is to accomplish their mission with minimum possible number of coalition casualties. Keeping track of journalists behind enemy lines doesn't (or shouldn't) figure into that.
Quick notes
A few quick things, and then I have to move on:
Your USA Today link is a pretty clear example of what's wrong with embedded reporting: everything in it is hearsay, being fed to the journalist from the military. The journalist states up front that he had no idea what had happened at the time because the military concealed it from him, and then he only reports afterwards what the military told him about it. The ITN investigation is more interesting. But that's only of passing interest because...
Argh, no, for the third time, that's not my original point, though perhaps I need to go back up top and clarify, since the conclusion is at the bottom of the entry: the point is that Eason Jordan had cause to believe what he said was true.
Hello!
In any study of friendly fire against friendlies or neutrals there will be some people who claim that such fire was intentional. This can be due to several factors:
(1) Bias due to pre-conceived notions and suspicions - i.e. The military doesn't like journalists, so they might shoot some if they can get away with it.
(2) Loss of Objectivity Due to Emotional Distress - i.e. if you or one of your colleagues are one of the targets of friendly fire you could lose objectivity.
(3) Some people simply do not have a firm grasp of what a real warzone is like and the confusion and chaos that is present.
(4) The details of the incident seem so absurdly unlikely that the only rational explanation is that it was done deliberately.
Go back and take a look at friendly fire incidents throughout recent history. In every case, someone will charge that it was a deliberate attack. Cases in point: Israeli attack on USS Liberty, US Bombing of Chinese Embassy in Balkans.
Here is a case where a british soldier can hardly fathom how he became a target of an A-10 because their clearly marked convoy (marked with materials given to them BY AMERICAN FORCES) was strafed multiple times by an A-10 flying no more than 50 meters* off the ground: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2901515.stm
* The 50 meters figure was quoted in another article.
To be continued...
Continued...
In any case, having been in the Navy for awhile and having a firm grasp of the confusion that is present in military operations (and I assume an actual ground combat zone would be worse than anything I've experienced), I will offer my views:
Terry Lloyd, Hussein Othman, and Fred Nerac - Mis-identification and/or confusion.
Three foreign journalists are arrested, detained, and beaten up - Pretty disturbing. Its possible they were believed to be enemy pretending to be journalists. Of course, this does not justify beating them up, so I count this a legitimate case.
Kamaran Muhamed killed - Friendly fire.
Gaby Rado falls from the roof of his hotel - Accident. The article makes no mention of military forces in the area and one witness says he was walking on the roof alone, so I think it is baseless to say this was deliberate.
Taras Protsyuk and José Couso killed - I've heard this conspiracy stuff before. I know you won't believe me, but its crap. If you ever enlist in the military then you will come to understand. Until then, I don't expect you to.
Mazen Dana killed - Misidentification. A shoulder fired rocket launcher and a TV camera can look pretty similar when viewed from head on at 30 meters. He was fired on by a convoy just arriving at the scene so it is irrelevent that he was at the scene for 30 minutes prior. I discussed this with one person, who asked my why the soldiers around him did not radio to the convoy that there were reporters in the area. This just goes to show how clueless some people are about military operations. I won't even bother explaining why that is such a rediculous question, just take my word for it.
Tariq Ayoub killed - Targeting error.
Four journalists, three from Reuters and one from NBC - I remember reading about this. I chalk it up as misidentification. The soldiers were fired upon, probably from the direction of the journalists. Someone wrongly identified them as the culprits. Of course, this does not justify beating them up, which is disturbing.
Ali Abdel Aziz and Ali al-Khatib killed - Result of nervous trigger fingers. It doesn't matter that their vehicle was marked TV if the soldiers believe that this is a disguise. Likewise, notifying the Army doesn't help. Some Army beaurocrat in the Green Zone told them it was ok to film. That doesn't mean that all of the soldiers in the area they are filming are aware of their presence or the fact that they have permission to film.
Assad Kadhim and Hussein Saleh killed - Misdirected fire. When you shoot a machinegun guess what?... Any bullet that misses the target will hit something you weren't aiming at. Also, this is not poor aim if one car was in front of another and the bullet trajectory was from the front or rear. Also, have you ever fired a gun? If you ever go to a pistol range, try firing the pistol at a paper target only five yards away. Don't aim through the sights, just point it towards the target and shoot. You might be suprised how often you miss.
Mazen Al-Tomaizi killed - I saw this footage. The missile was obviously not aimed at the journalist, though I will agree that it might not have been a good idea to fire a missile at the burning bradly since it was clearly surrounded by about a dozen people.
Dhia Najim killed - Probably killed deliberately... but not because he was a journalist. Probably because he was believed to be one of those happy jihadists. This is what happens when the enemy doesn't obey the Geneva Conventions. "but his video footage showed no fighting at the time he was killed." - so what? A battle often lasts for hours with intermittent periods of intense gunfire mixed in with periods of relative calm.
So all in all, it sounds pretty dubious to me. My big concern is that the US military seems to have a habit of beating up captured journalists that it thinks are enemy. One has to wonder then, if it is commonplace for the military to abuse captured personnel who really are enemies.
Clarification
If you give the military the benefit of the doubt in each case, these are plausible explanations, sure. Lacking a public investigation, however, it's hard to fault someone for not giving them the benefit of the doubt, given the other things that keep leaking out.
I'm quite curious about something, however:
Do you have a reference for this? That it's a freshy arrived convoy is certainly significant, if true.
Also, as I mentioned in a previous comment, I was envisioning fire from an angle, not front to rear, when I originally wrote the comment about bad aim, but certainly front to rear straight through the windshields is plausible. (As an aside, I'm a tolerable marksman with both a pistol and a rifle, though I'll never win any contests of speed. With only simple training and casual practice I can reliably hit man-sized target with a Ruger 22/45 at about 30', and I expect that trained soldiers with better gear would do much better. Of course, I have the advantage of not being shot at while I'm practicing.)
Also:
Judging from the results of the ACLU FOIA request, the answer is yes. If you're wondering why people like myself are deeply, deeply suspicious when things go consistently wrong, that's why.
But if you're focusing on trying to engender doubt that the military was responsible for one death or another, you're missing the point of this. I'm not trying to convict soldiers here; I'm demonstrating that it's entirely possible for someone (Eason Jordan, specifically) who has been given this information to honestly believe that the military was deliberately targeting journalists, and say so.
Beating up the Enemy Yes,
Beating up the Enemy
Yes, that has happened, it happened in my war, several times to my personal knowledge. I even used the butt of my weapon to knock the crap out a VC that had just wounded two of my men.
In the heat of the battle, moment or in the rage of finally getting ahold of the enemy, it is difficult NOT to take that rage out on him.
Our unit never killed prisoners, but I am sure it happened (Sir, they were trying to escape)!
Right, wrong, thats just the way it is in combat.
Papa Ray
West Texas
USA
Rage
Or on the reporter that you think might be providing "comfort" by way of publishing a viewpoint hostile to your cause? Or someone you picked up who you think might be an enemy, because they happened to be nearby when the dust cleared? That's exactly the problem, you see. If that behaviour is being accepted or even endorsed, then there really is a lot of merit to the accusation that the military considers journalists fair targets.
There's a lot of merit to this, unfortunately. Wars are ugly, psychologically damaging to everyone involved, and the boys with the guns are under a frightful amount of strain. Were it up to me, even if everything that happened was properly investigated, I'd assign only the bare minimum of responsibility to the soldiers on the ground, all the way up to and including the events at Abu Ghraib. Dishonorable discharge for conduct unbecoming or failing to refuse an illegal order, perhaps, but not jail time. The ones that set the policies and gave the orders, however (which are the ones that get away free in the current system), I'd like to throw the book at.
But that said, if it's happening, it's happening, and there's no call to rage at someone for pointing it out.
Just for the record
I'm pretty forgiving when it comes to heat of the moment rough-housing. Naturally, if you think someone is an enemy you aren't going to be nice to them, especially if (a) you think they were shooting at you, and (b) they are not cooperating while being rounded up.
I have no problem with an elbow to the head or trowing them around a bit if thats what it takes to detain them.
The thing that disturbs me is when we get news reports of people winding up in the hospital with broken ribs.
very good work and...
... the problem most folks have with Jordan is not that he may have lied but that he has not bothered to present even a fraction of the data you have compiled. To you that's 'annoying'. To others, it's pure slander.
Slander vs sloppiness
It's certainly nothing to be happy about, one way or the other. What distinguishes slander from sloppiness, however, is that slander derives from something the speaker doesn't believe is true (and in fact, when it is a matter of public concern, the plaintiff in a slander case must actively prove that the allegations are false). I think Eason Jordan believed what he was saying, from having heard the same reports that I had heard. As you can see from the other comments, there's a lot of room to wrangle over whether he's actually right (and even I don't believe that all twelve fatalities listed above are likely to be deliberate), but the preservation of free speech requires that one allow for statements made in good faith — even if the speaker turns out to be too inept to defend the statements without outside help.
Killed Journalists
This is an incredible amount of 'work' to reach a conclusion that you had already reached. America is the bad guy. " we have most likely killed over a hundred thousand civilians in Iraq.." Would you care to dig up all their names and the circumstances of their deaths? Would this ethereal number include any people who might have like had..you know...guns and rpg's? Jerk!
100,000 figure
If you think this is about whether or not America is the bad guy, you've missed the point. See my other comments.
The 100,000 figure is from a study published in The Lancet, and is actually likely to be low.
Did you see this? As in almos
Did you see this? As in almost all cases in a war zone, its a very dangerous place, no matter who you are. Being in the area, you can be killed for many reasons or any reason. The explanations, excuses, reasons may vary with each incident and with who you talked to. Two people at the same incident may give different versions of what happened. Keep all this in mind when reading any of this.
For example:
"The Journal article cited a report from a British security firm commissioned by ITN to investigate the incident saying that Lloyd's car was hit by both coalition and Iraqi fire; the latter most likely came from behind the car, possibly after the vehicle had crashed.
"The report concluded that "[t]he Iraqis no doubt mounted an attack using the ITN crew as cover, or perhaps stumbled into the U.S. forces whilst attempting to detain the ITN crew." The report also speculated that the missing journalists—Nerac and Othman, who were last seen by Demoustier in another car being stopped by Iraqi forces—might have been pulled out of their car before it came under fire from coalition forces, and then Iraqi forces used the SUV to attack the coalition forces".
http://www.cpj.org/cases03/mideast_cases03/iraq.html
This is one example where different stories and different conclusions are drawn later. The reporters are still dead, and a war zone is still a place where you don't want to be if you don't want to be killed or wounded.
I once asked a reporter who had came in on a re-supply run for a quick look at our AO (because we had just been in a two day firefight [1968]) "What the hell are you doing here, don't you know we could be attacked again at any time"? His answer was: " This is where the story is". So the story was more important to him than his life.
Papa Ray
West Texas
USA
Interesting
That quote seems to contradict Demoustier's description, but it's certainly interesting to add to the collection. Thanks.
Final note
This discussion has brought up a lot of interesting, useful information, which I'm quite happy to leave as a record of counterpoint, but it's moving well astray of the original point of this entry, which was to show that Eason Jordan had cause to believe what he said. This hasn't changed, nor has the subsequent discussion about whether he was right affected this primary point.
Unfortunately, I don't have unlimited time to continue a discussion into every detail of every incident, and I find that I am now simply repeating myself when I answer, so I am closing the comments to further entries. I have already spent much more time here than I intended. For those interested in both sides of the issues, I strongly encourage you to read through all of the links yourself, both in the main entry, and in the comments.
For those that stopped in with additional information, thanks again for your efforts. My largest issue with those attacking Eason Jordan was that they didn't do the work that you have done (see my original "Closing comments" section in the main entry), and if I've inspired people to actually think about the matter, rather than just jumping on the bandwagon, I'm satisfied with the outcome.